Discussion:
OT: writer's block
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Ron Moses
2014-09-19 02:13:03 UTC
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Any of you creative types got any suggestions re: writer's block? I'm getting desperate. 98% of this song fell into my lap over a month ago - practically wrote itself - and I've been stuck on three goddamn lines ever since. This nagging gap in the final verse, it taunts me! The verse starts out really nice, and it ends nice, but I can't knit the fucking thing together. Whatever I try to put in the middle just SUCKS.

I've tried walking away for a few days and coming back to it, and it just feels like that much more of a dead end every time I do. Normally I would say whatever and file it away, possibly never to see the light of day again, but this one's pretty important to me, and I have plans for it. Anyone out there got any tried and true remedies?

ron
Antal Adriaanse
2014-09-19 08:11:02 UTC
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Give it some time, take a step back, temporarily change the context of the lyrics, describe what you want the three goddamn lines to say and see if that leads anywhere, change the order of the verses (or even lines), etc. Don't over think it.

By the way, in my book getting stuck on a couple of lines is not a writer's block. I haven't written more than one song in over a year. Hope that makes you feel better.

AA
Ron Moses
2014-09-19 12:47:27 UTC
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It may just be an "if you love something, set it free" kind of thing. I'm possibly a bit over-attached to this song (it's not even that great - it's entirely derivative but it's very heartfelt) and the fact that I can't crack it is really frustrating. I'm starting to feel it slipping away into The Realm of Songs Half-Written and Long-Forgotten, and I would really like to hang on to this one.

I have a strong sense of what I want to say there, it's just a matter of finding words that fit the meter and flow reasonably well. Everything I come up with is either incredibly corny or way too forced and prosaic. I've given strong consideration to scrapping what I've written of the verse so far. If I can't find the words to fit into this hole, maybe the problem is with the hole. There's no way I'm losing the first two lines, they're too good. But as much as I like the way the verse closes, I may have to lose that rather than trying to retrofit these lines into it.

I'm lucky if I write one song a year these days. I don't know if it's age or general life contentment. My wife asks me why I don't do more music these days, and I tell her it's her fault for making me happy. :)

ron
Ori
2014-09-20 05:58:31 UTC
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Post by Ron Moses
It may just be an "if you love something, set it free" kind of thing. I'm possibly a bit over-attached to this song (it's not even that great - it's entirely derivative but it's very heartfelt) and the fact that I can't crack it is really frustrating. I'm starting to feel it slipping away into The Realm of Songs Half-Written and Long-Forgotten, and I would really like to hang on to this one.
I have a strong sense of what I want to say there, it's just a matter of finding words that fit the meter and flow reasonably well. Everything I come up with is either incredibly corny or way too forced and prosaic. I've given strong consideration to scrapping what I've written of the verse so far. If I can't find the words to fit into this hole, maybe the problem is with the hole. There's no way I'm losing the first two lines, they're too good. But as much as I like the way the verse closes, I may have to lose that rather than trying to retrofit these lines into it.
I'm lucky if I write one song a year these days. I don't know if it's age or general life contentment. My wife asks me why I don't do more music these days, and I tell her it's her fault for making me happy. :)
ron
Have you tried a thesaurus? Rhyming dictionary? Made up words?
Ron Moses
2014-09-21 04:17:14 UTC
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Post by Ori
Have you tried a thesaurus? Rhyming dictionary? Made up words?
Yes, yes, and while I'm not above the idea, in this case it wouldn't be quite appropriate. But the first two are major go-tos in my creative world.

ron
Antal Adriaanse
2014-09-21 10:39:56 UTC
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How about plain old theft? I don't mean lifting sections from other people's work, but using a line (or two).

I sometimes translate songs that I like (I write in Dutch), see if I can use a line and work from there. Also, I once read an inspirational psalm/hymn. I used a couple of lines from that, with some minor changes. Within the context of the song it worked.

AA
Ron Moses
2014-09-22 13:47:50 UTC
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Post by Antal Adriaanse
How about plain old theft? I don't mean lifting sections from other people's work, but using a line (or two).
Oh, I'm not above that at all. The problem here is, I'm afraid the melody and chord progression may already be borrowing more than slightly from two specific songs, namely "Doctor My Eyes" and "Smoke From A Distant Fire". (Neither of which I particularly enjoy, ironically enough.) That's already nagging at me more than I'm comfortable with.

I made a bit of progress the other night after deciding I was trying to say too much in too little space. I thought I might even be done with it before I played it through and realized I'd over-trimmed it, and found the verse was resolving too early. So now I'm back to needing two lines. I have two 10-12 syllable lines to express the ambivalence inherent in moving on after the death of a loved one. What it means to acknowledge that you're no longer actively grieving. That moment you finally delete their name from your phone. To feel guilty about feeling okay again. It's waaaay too much to try to cram into such a small space, and I need to figure out how to boil it down to its essence. I just have to roll the various threads between my fingers a while longer and let them fall away until the one remains.

So yeah, maybe I'll follow up on your advice about theft after all. People far more talented than I have written about grief for centuries - certainly one of them has come up with a turn of phrase I can hang this on. Time to start a-Googlin'!

ron
Ron Moses
2014-09-23 18:40:08 UTC
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Post by Ron Moses
I have two 10-12 syllable lines to express the ambivalence inherent
in moving on after the death of a loved one. What it means to
acknowledge that you're no longer actively grieving.
Okay, be honest with me. Is this okay, or is it painfully hackneyed and cliched?

I try to hold on to the last of the pain
But it's melting away like a tear in the rain

Seriously, tell me if I need to ditch that.

ron
Antal Adriaanse
2014-09-23 23:05:42 UTC
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English is not my first language. I think I understand it, so I guess it's okay. But I think you can do better.

Does this work in English?
I try to hold on, until there's no more pain
(plus a second line)

AA
Ron Moses
2014-09-24 16:37:08 UTC
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Post by Antal Adriaanse
English is not my first language. I think I understand it,
so I guess it's okay. But I think you can do better.
I appreciate your honesty, it's just what I was looking for. The "tear in the rain" thing strikes me as a bit corny, but it is actually fairly appropriate to what I'm trying to express. I'm very much on the fence about it, but I think with a small rhythmic tweak it might do the trick. It's grown on me since I last posted.
Post by Antal Adriaanse
Does this work in English?
I try to hold on, until there's no more pain
(plus a second line)
This is close, but a bit off the mark of what I'm going for. (I'd love to hear the Dutch version!) What I'm trying to say is that I feel guilty about coming to terms with it. The pain is passing, like it always does. But I feel like if I let that happen, it's like I'm not paying proper tribute. I should *always* hurt, forever, and it bothers me that the hurt is subsiding. So I'm trying to hold on to the last of the pain, despite the fact that it's slipping away.

And this is where "it's melting away like a tear in the rain" sort of works, if the tear is (obviously) grief, and the rain is time. Plus, the next couplet makes a reference to clouds rolling away, which really ties together the rain theme.

I'm grateful for the feedback, but I may go with what I have. As I consider the piece as a whole, it's already a bit corny. It's very earnest, not guarded or self-conscious at all, and I'm making no effort to be especially clever (because it's not about me being clever), so I think it might be okay. I know English isn't your first language (which you'd never know based on your activities here, so kudos to you, Tal) but I'm going to go ahead and dump the entire lyric here, just for context. And because I feel like I'm ready to share it. I'm feeling pretty good about it, warts and all. The "tear in the rain" line is hardly the only potentially embarrassing line in the song, and I think I really don't care about that. It's honest. It's the best tribute I can offer someone who made me feel exactly like this, whether it's corny or not. (Oh, and I feel compelled to mention that the religious symbolism in this lyric is merely that, symbolic. I don't actually subscribe to any of that, but it conveys an emotion.)

Cheryl, on the off-chance you're reading this thread... yeah, this is for Steve.

ron

==============================================

"As Do We All"

Peter awaits
At the toll at the pearly gates
And if love is the currency
That heaven is due
I know they saw you coming
And they waved you right through
'Cause they knew you
As did we all

Before you got far
They handed you your guitar
So you played them your music
And before very long
Every soul in the heavens
Had a new favorite song
'Cause they heard you
As did we all

I remember a time not so long ago
When I couldn't have imagined
A world without you in it
Smiling every minute
Laughin' in the face of fate
Now I don't know what to do
With all these memories of you
I wanna pick up the phone
And it kills me to know
You won't be there

So now I pray
That I'll see you again some day
And I scream to the heavens
To cut me some slack
But they've got no intention
Of giving you back
'Cause they love you
As do we all

I remember it like it was yesterday
We were trading off numbers
"Dirty" and "Widget"
"Bleeding Heart Contingent"
Laughing like a couple of kids
Now I don't know what to do
With all the time I wish that I could spend with you
But that won't come true

So here we are
As we float among our mother stars
You in the cosmos and me on the ground
You rising higher and me breaking down
Trying to hang on to the last of the pain
As it's melting away like a tear in the rain
Feeling so guilty for feeling okay
As the clouds roll away to reveal a brand new day
'Cause I miss you
As do we all
Yes I miss you my friend
As do we all
Antal Adriaanse
2014-09-25 14:49:03 UTC
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It's beautiful. Don't change a thing.

AA
Ron Moses
2014-09-25 17:50:26 UTC
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Post by Antal Adriaanse
It's beautiful. Don't change a thing.
Thank you, I appreciate that. And I appreciate all the other feedback... literally every reply helped in some way. It's nice to be on the other side of this at last.

Now I just have to record it. :)

ron
Alan
2014-09-30 05:07:03 UTC
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Post by Ron Moses
Post by Antal Adriaanse
It's beautiful. Don't change a thing.
Thank you, I appreciate that. And I appreciate all the other feedback... literally every reply helped in some way. It's nice to be on the other side of this at last.
Now I just have to record it. :)
ron
Way late to the thread, and I can't argue with AA, but if I'm not too
late for a suggestion, what about (for a second line)...

Washing away like some sand in the rain

But really, it does work as it is.

Alan
Sheryl
2014-10-17 18:43:08 UTC
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Now I'm crying and there's no rain to hide it. Not throwing out a line, just describing what's happening in my office as I read this. But I'm also smiling, as I always do when I think of Hart (feels naked without an exclamation point).

It's beautiful, Ron. Absolutely beautiful.
gosh I miss him. What a tremendous spirit!

I'm so grateful to have found AMMK so very long ago. Love you guys.
Ron Moses
2014-10-17 21:27:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sheryl
It's beautiful, Ron. Absolutely beautiful.
Thank you, Sheryl, I really appreciate that.
Post by Sheryl
gosh I miss him. What a tremendous spirit!
Yeah. *sigh*

ron
Ori
2014-10-23 06:59:31 UTC
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Post by Sheryl
I'm so grateful to have found AMMK so very long ago. Love you guys.
My sentiment exactly.
Alan
2014-10-24 00:34:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ori
Post by Sheryl
I'm so grateful to have found AMMK so very long ago. Love you guys.
My sentiment exactly.
+1

Alan

Hagrinas Mivali
2014-10-17 22:57:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ori
Post by Ron Moses
It may just be an "if you love something, set it free" kind of thing. I'm possibly a bit over-attached to this song (it's not even that great - it's entirely derivative but it's very heartfelt) and the fact that I can't crack it is really frustrating. I'm starting to feel it slipping away into The Realm of Songs Half-Written and Long-Forgotten, and I would really like to hang on to this one.
I have a strong sense of what I want to say there, it's just a matter of finding words that fit the meter and flow reasonably well. Everything I come up with is either incredibly corny or way too forced and prosaic. I've given strong consideration to scrapping what I've written of the verse so far. If I can't find the words to fit into this hole, maybe the problem is with the hole. There's no way I'm losing the first two lines, they're too good. But as much as I like the way the verse closes, I may have to lose that rather than trying to retrofit these lines into it.
I'm lucky if I write one song a year these days. I don't know if it's age or general life contentment. My wife asks me why I don't do more music these days, and I tell her it's her fault for making me happy. :)
ron
Have you tried a thesaurus? Rhyming dictionary? Made up words?
All words are made up words. Except mama. That one is genetic.
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